Walmart to Amazon Triangulation Scam Amazon Sellers Be Aware With Customer Messages!
Amazon Seller for 11 years now. I have been noticing strange customer messages as if someone is using a translator. Similar to past conversations with manufacturers on Alibaba. I have been noticing a pattern with these messages using the same or similar words and/or phrases. All customer messages were referring that they never received their package wanting a full refund regardless of what the tracking shows.
I started digging deeper in the seller forums. I was told that our Amazon listings get hijacked by a Chinese based company. That will copy the Amazon listing information to create new listings on Walmart Marketplace.
Essentially, what is happening is this Chinese based company receives an order on the Walmart Marketplace. They will then, I assume, create or alter an existing Amazon customer account using the Walmart customers name. They will place an order with the Amazon seller to have that item drop shipped to the Walmart customer. The chinese based company will then collect the funds from the Walmart sale and message the Amazon seller stating they didn't receive the package. Which based on Amazon's policies mean they are unfortunately getting a full refund majority of the time.
To prove fraudulent intent, I went ahead and placed an order on Walmart using my personal Walmart+ account from a company that I suspected was the cause for my product/customer issues on the Amazon side. 2 hours later I received an order from the fraudulent company using my name as the "customer" for my Amazon seller account. At that time it proved my hunch that I was correct. However, to take it a step further I fulfilled my own order in hopes the company disguising themselves as me would message asking for a refund claiming the package was not delivered. In which they did exactly that.
Here are examples of the patterns in messages that are supposed to be different customer but yet are same fraudulent company placing dropship orders.
"Hello, where is my order? i checked my surroundings and asked my wife's confirmation, they never saw any package left at my house. it has been several days, i guess it must be lost. these days extreme weather happens suddenly, I have no idea whether there are associated. could you refund for my lost package now? i no longer want it!"
"Solution! i need a solution! i am urgent and desperate please. i want my money back and i will not accept money paid without successful delivery, i cannot bear big loss. i hope you can understand! thanks."
"According to tracking info it seems delieved successfully, however, there is no any package left nearby. i tried my best to locate it and found out nothing there. now i hope you can just refund my lost package and i am thankful for ur understanding!"
"what's wrong with my order? i checked everywhere it may have been delivered, but the result is nothing I found out. i don't want to wait anymore, Please refund. i will appreciate your service here."
"excuse me, i want to ask why my package still not arrive, something happened? please help me with a refund, i still haven’t received the parcel."
"I confirmed there is no parcel left at the mailbox, also I have asked neighbors for the parcel of the order many times, no result. they don't care about it at all. Please refund. i can't bear the loss."
"Excuse me? is there someone who can help me to refund my order since i never receive it. i purchased it days before, i don't want to have them since it so long time and still not show up yet. i want my money to be returned please."
"i have checked everywhere it may have been delivered, at the same time i asked the neighbors, The result was nothing I found out. I wasted so long time for this matter. I don't want to wait anymore. please refund my lost order."
"this shopping experience is not good, i never get my item yet which has been accidentally marked delivered. for me this is not fair, i lost my money and i cannot bear the big loss. Please refund, otherwise i will report your shop for its worst shopping experience."
98 replies
Seller_CXrqXTfeZqHCe
I thought it was just me but now that Ive seen your post it makes total sense. the last line is verbatim what I've seen in my seller messages.
"this shopping experience is not good, i never get my item yet which has been accidentally marked delivered. for me this is not fair, i lost my money and i cannot bear the big loss. Please refund, otherwise i will report your shop for its worst shopping experience."
Quincy_Amazon
Hello @Seller_x0Q6SaCVrlDLE
Thank you for posting your inquiry to the Forums and for providing that detailed information. I wanted to inform you that your case has been escalated internally and we are working on getting the related order claims reviewed. We will provide any updates we receive on the escalation. Please continue to monitor your performance notifications, email address on file, and case log in case the team reaches out to you directly.
Regards,
Quincy_Amazon
Seller_VKaD8B0OLgjxe
We have been experiencing this off and on for 6 plus months. It has been horrible the past month with us losing thousands to it. We have reached out to multiply people at Walmart with no help. Most tell us that it could not be happening. I am going to the Walmart Seller conference next week and we are hopefully that I can speak to someone face to face that will understand and help.
Seller_E2XtWufE0rzvT
And this is just a needle in the haystack of 2 step drop shipping and other popular "business models" that are not only coming from China but Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India. Join some FB groups to see the extent of these scams. Walmart is currently overwhelmed with this and as far as Amazon it's flying under the radar simply thanks to the sheer volume of orders every second of each day. Eventually it will get caught by bots until the scammers figure out a better way. It's a game of whack a mole. Small businesses and everyday folks end up getting hurt financially the most. Hence the never ending fee increases from platforms and carriers.
Seller_88RcfT62249f7
Thank you for sharing the types of messages that are being sent. The broken English was what tipped us off. OF course, the customer is claiming non-receipt 2 weeks after actual delivery. And demanding a refund. We do not use Amazon buy shipping.
"Hello, May I ask why I still haven't received the package of this order until today? I have waited for so many days, I can't wait any longer, please give me a refund."
With that, We did discover the same product of ours has been duplicated over and over on WM. Multiple separate listings for same item, with different Chinese sellers. Looking at our sales history for the item we cant find a connected buyer and seller. But it sure looks like the same scam.
Seller_ahhPjyebYXGto
We haven't a large volume of problems with this but when we do it's frustrating.
Why does Amazon allow 3rd party buyers with countries/locales of known bad actor locations? If neither the buyer or the seller are located in the same country as the 3rd party seller it should raise red flags for anyone. From my experience, many of these bad actors are Chinese based so it would seem a logical first step to ban any 3rd party buyer from China if the product is shipped within North America.
Some of you referenced reporting a drop shipper. How do you go about doing that?
Dominic_Amazon
Hi @Seller_ahhPjyebYXGto,
Dominic from Amazon here. Many buyers from all over the world go on amazon.com to shop. Different stores have different catalogs and some products may only be available on the US store. If you feel a buyer is abusing the store you can reach out through the Report Abuse Tool.
Best,
Dominic
Seller_ahhPjyebYXGto
Thanks @Dominic_Amazon
I'll keep that in mind. We're dealing with this situation now with an A-Z claim that Amazon initially denied but the buyer has appealed.
Dominic_Amazon
Hi @Seller_ahhPjyebYXGto,
Have you submitted an additional case for this? If so can you please provide me with that ID?
Best,
Dominic
Seller_ahhPjyebYXGto
In reviewing it I just realized that the customer sent a fake A-Z repeal message through messaging. I'm not sure there was a repeal ever filed. The order in question was 111-4469802-8841802 .
Seller_66GtZP70AUYcV
We are dealing with this right now and it is out of hand. Any way to escalate our case @Quincy_Amazon @Dominic_Amazon?
Seller_HP0CuTSNvJvu9
So, I have an interesting development on one of our orders from these scammers. On this order, we didn't purchase shipping through Amazon, however knowing 100% that it was the scammer I decided I wasn't going to make it easy on them, and let them file an A-to-z claim anyway. Having picture proof of delivery, when Amazon granted to A-to-z claim we still had to pay for it, but it didn't negatively affect our metrics. Well, one month letter I got this email:
____________________
We're refunding you!
Upon further review, we decided to reverse our original decision made on the A-to-z Guarantee claim of $86.87. Because you were previously debited for the refund on this claim, a credit will shortly be initiated to your account for USD 69.95. This credit should show in your account within 72 hours and your order defect rate will be updated within 48 hours to reflect this change.
____________________
Now, $69.95 is not equal to $86.87 (not sure what that is about) but to me this is a signal that Amazon is figuring out the pattern of these abusers and is at least trying to make it right (to the minimum of their comfort, of course.)
Seller_HP0CuTSNvJvu9
I don't know...depends on why you're asking. I don't want anyone to change their mind again lol.
Seller_j0bMadFf08f4t
@Dominic_Amazon@Quincy_AmazonWe're also experiencing this issue with increasing frequency lately. Customer says their order was not delivered, but FedEx tracking shows a photo of the package at a house which exactly matches Google Street View. It seems like a clear-cut fraudulent claim, but the A-z is always granted and our appeals denied.
Currently we have case 16045834231 open. But we also have a list of order numbers that is growing every day. Not sure how to update this case though because it says it's in "transferred" status for more than 5 days.
