Massive return exploit...advice required
Hello,
I’ve had an ongoing return request from a customer for the last few weeks. I’ll summarise below:
I sold 4 Desktop PC’s to a customer at £300 each. GREAT 
After 30 days the customer opened a return request stating that computers were running slowly (all 4 of them!). They were fairly basic machines, but I’ve sold over 20 to other customers without complaint.
The customer was advised to install some system updates and upgrade the OS from Windows 8 to Win 10.
The customer advised that the units were still running slowly, and said they wanted to return all 4 PC’s. I asked whether the units were still boxed, with original packaging and accessories. I was informed that the units were no longer boxed, but accessories would be returned.
Upon hearing this, I contacted Amazon to ask for advice, (As the items were no longer new, and were not defective either). Amazon advised that I offer the customer a partial refund upon delivery of the defective units. The customer agreed to this.
Today, 71 days after the order was placed, the 4 units arrived. Upon checking them, I’m lost for words…
The desktops were delivered using MyHermes (The buyer chose to use their own courier) and had little to an additional packaging. 2 of the 4 units were returned with incorrect accessories (Lenovo/Packard Bell keyboards & Mice rather than HP), 2 units were password locked, not wiped (As I asked the customer to do), and finally, one of the computers has had the side removed and re-installed incorrectly, with 1 screw missing and thge panel hanging loosely from the tower.
In addition, the 2 working units were clogged up with loads of 3rd party software. No wonder the computers were running slowly!
Where do I stand? Do I have to refund this customer – who has tampered with, damaged and neglected these items? Seems ridiculous that someone can return non-faulty items in such poor condition and get a refund…
I’ll be contacting Amazon after submitting this post, but expect I’ll get a quicker reply here than from Seller Services.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
26 replies
Seller_hC0hNVDuILaKO
IMO
As this was a discretionary return outside of the normal return period of 30 days, and since the items are NOT faulty then you are entitled to offer a partial refund to reflect the change in value. You can additionally with hold the return transit, and if the buyer paid for outgoing transit then you can withhold that too.
OR
You can advise the buyerr that he has not returned the units as sold [wrong accessories returned etc] and they have been opened internally, are password locked etc, so you cannot offer any refund at all.
Request a prepaid returns label, or a courier collection so that he can have his goods back.
Document everything with photographic evidence so that you can defend any subsequent A-Z claim that he may attempt.
Seller_5fhNLYByV3Ulg
I should add, of the 4 units, 2 of them appear to be total write-offs. The hard drive is not responding. They’ve clearly been knocked around, or had some form of abuse for them to get into this state!
Seller_9gxLEcl5fL4JO
Hi, firstly I believe Amazon requires goods to be sent within 14 days of a return being opened but because this was done as ‘faulty’ they would most likely not accept that as a reason for you refusing the goods and refund. I would blank refuse the return and took pictures of the state the PC’s are in, contacted Amazon to advise the goods are used and not been returned in original condition and therefore you are forced to refuse the return. Again, this can be a bit of an odd one if your customer opened the return as specifically faulty as they have the legal right to get faults sorted, especially with PC’s that are supposed to run smoothly for longer than a month (I am not saying it is not customers fault they are slow but we all know how Amazon loves to defend the customers)
However, according to consumer rights, customer only has a right to repair after 30 days if goods are faulty (quote: ‘‘If you are outside the 30-day right to reject, you have to give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace any goods or digital content which are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described’’. )
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
Therefore, you could advise Seller Support customer has mistreated the goods and sent them damaged, quoting the consumer rights (always confuses them when you quote them actual law) but as a good will gesture you you will offer to repair them (in this case just wipe everything out of the PC’s which should restore the factory settings and with it the speed)
Then advise the customer the same, quoting consumer rights etc. and stressing they have failed to take care of the goods therefore any damage or slow processing is not covered by the manufacturer warranty and the goods will be sent back.
I know a lot of people will say you should just make the goods available to the customer for collection as it is their responsibility, but if you send them yourself with tracked delivery, if they open A-Z or a charge back, you will be able to prove the goods have been returned to them. And legally you cannot keep their goods and their money, so better sent the duds back.
Seller_EJIX7rqDNQJi2
According to Amazon, you should refund the buyer at least 50% of the original product cost.
Seller_5fhNLYByV3Ulg
Thank you all for the comments! .
I’ll drop the Zon a message tonight, explaining what’s happened, and then contact the customer to advise them of my action…
The joys of e-commerce eh…
Seller_M3ZhQshcA0Z6K
Thids is just not fair… The client dabbled with the computers, changed them an returned them with alien parts and missing screws… Why should he even offer a partial refund? It is obvious that this client wanted the parts he removed from the computers. and now he also wants his money back? If the only problem was that the computers were slow, why were the machines opened, keyboards changed and other things fiddled with? There was no need for him to even open the machines… I don’t know about you, but I’d not offer any partial refund at all; since the machines are now different from those you sent…At the state theyre in, you cannot sell them to any other person, because they’d be returned when the client finds out that some of the pieces are foreign to the makes of the computers they buy… Let the client return every single piece they took out, then maybe you can talk of partial refund…
Seller_saK5Ah2SaNYjL
So glad I don’t sell tech any more. I feel so badly for OP in this total mess.
Seller_qHzcAWcsPVCfg
SimonSmart - sorry I do not hold much hope that this will end happily for you, not without a great deal of effort.
My personal opinion, moral and legal, is that the buyer is owed Zero. He has damaged the goods, intentionally, and hence they are not returnable,
You were right to authorise the return - anything else and you would have had the money debited by Amazon 2 minutes after the buyer lodged an A-Z claim.
btw you can never rely on Amazon SS advice. They often say what they think you want to hear and promise their full support when it comes to Feedback and A-Z claims. Sadly tho’ they have zero influence with either as these are runs by completely different teams. Do NOT do what they say, Do what is right under Amazon Policy and hope ( yes hope) when push comes to shove that they will this time follow their own policy to the letter.
If you want to fight it - send a recorded letter advising politely that a refund is not possible and explain why. Advise you will hold his goods for 30 days for his or his carrier to collect, of you receive a pre-paid label. You might, again politely, advise that should Amazon debit your account to refund the buyer then you will take the matter to Civil Court. i.e. pre-empt an A-Z Claim.
Unless you refund in full you take a risk with A-Z and Feedback going bad. Only you can decide what’s the right path for you, as unfortunately there is never a path guaranteed when Amazon are involved.
Seller_5fhNLYByV3Ulg
Nice and specific advise from Amazon…
Dear Simon,
Good day to you
As per your email, I understand that returned order #************* was returned by the buyer in a different unacceptable condition and also missing some accessories.
If you are unable to re-list this item due to its condition, please contact the buyer directly to resolve the issue before determining the appropriate refund. If you are unable to resolve the issue directly with your buyer and, as a result, an A-to-z Guarantee claim or Chargeback is filed for the transaction, we ask you to respond with specific details regarding the differences between the item you sent and the returned item.
As we note on our website, returns are a normal part of doing business online and we expect our sellers to accept most returns.
For more information regarding returns, please review the Returns & Refunds Help page:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3149431&referral=APQHHG6ZQ8AFU_A34DYKAKB3QCP7&referral=A1O6QGPU9428I7_A1ZNB52X083GNO
Please note that you are expected to accept returns if they fall within the guidelines specified on this page. While there are instances in which a return may be refused, we ask you to accept returned items whenever possible in the interest of customer service.
Please contact the buyer of this order through the Amazon.co.uk Communication Manager to discuss return arrangements.
One option you may wish to consider is to issue a return dispatch concession to cover the buyer’s costs for returning the item. For more information about concessions, please see the following Help page:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_1-1?ie=UTF&referral=APQHHG6ZQ8AFU_A34DYKAKB3QCP7&referral=A1O6QGPU9428I7_A1ZNB52X083GNO…
Thank you for contacting us.
Seller_SlXZyY9vz3zbX
The 50% refund policy applies to the US - it does not apply to EU sites. The law changed circa 2013 here to redress the balance (a bit!) between consumer and retailer.
Here you can withhold up to the full value of the goods if they have not been looked after / damaged and unsalable upon return.
The UK legislation on this matter is defined under Regulation 34 (9) as follows:
“if the value of the goods is diminished by any amount as a result of handling of the goods by the consumer beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods, the trader may recover that amount from the consumer, up to the contract price”.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34/made
The few times we have had a return go to an A-Z claim due to refusal of refund due the poor condition of the goods (backed up with photos), the A-Z team advise that you can only refund up to 50% of the value of the goods.
Correct them by providing the above information on the law here and they will drop the the 50% line. In our case the refunds were Amazon funded.
I assume the A-Z team handles claims across the various Amazon sites and sometimes refer to information that applies to a different country.
