Buyer fraud and no recourse
So here's a good one. Buyer claims item-not-received. Send tracking screenshot which clearly shows item delivered. Buyer miraculously finds item "in his recycling bin". Then immediately claims item condition is not as described (it was in superb condition) and he still wants a refund. I offer a return. He becomes abusive and says he is taking me to court. Leaves negative feedback saying I am "extremely unhelpful" and starts a return. I receive an Amazon message on Friday to say 'We have temporarily withdrawn the claim on the order. However, if you do not issue a refund when the return is received, the customer may reopen the claim.' Today is Tuesday and they have granted his claim and refunded him. There is no tracking for the return or indication that he has returned the item and I have received nothing. Amazon says I cannot use Safe-T where there has been an A-Z, that I should use 'Option to Appeal'. But there is no 'Option to Appeal' under the A-Z. Any advice? Another good day for Amazon-encouraged buyer abuse - I've been here long enough to be able to tell instantly when a buyer knows the game to play to get free stuff at my expense.
18 replies
Seller_ZQyopdiwkUHOZ
Start a seller support case, state there is no option to appeal, and then make the appeal through the support case.
If they don't forward it to the a-to-z team, keep reopening case asking for it to be transferred.
Seller_6A9BM76EEV5EG
Had one today, parcel was left in safe place by their porch, customer claims they never received it and that it could have been stolen. Image on the POD shows it right in front of a ring doorbell. Told the customer to review the footage on her doorbell from the time the POD was signed (gave her the exact time) and to watch who took it and report it to the police for a crime reference number. Starts kicking off, waiting the A to Z now...
Seller_OC4AKQTpHwKwL
Their safe space should be good enough, if not it is their fault not ours!
It is really sickening on here, now.
Seller_RNcqKX0eok7NI
Just so we are all clear here when the courier leaves the item in a safe place and sends photo evidence the item in law has net been delivered.
The law states that an item is only regarded as delivered it they photo the customer holding the item.
The problem in most cases is not the customer but the courier - we need to get them stopped from leaving items in safe places or simply throwing it over the fence and claiming it has been delivered.
I shipped a 7k sculpture to a customer, he said he never received it, two weeks later he found it in his shed????
Seller_N0kQDKMgwda6y
What REALLY annoys me is that Amazon surely knows all about this and instead of acting to help it steadily ratchets up everything in the fraudsters favour. if the senior management don't know they are incompetent and if they do know they are complicit..
Seller_3CG1hSbR0Jmo2
Not just an issue with Amazon, it is just an unfortunately part of selling online nowdays.
I calculated the car parts side of our business lost nearly £4000 to fraud over the last 12 months.
We had 1 customer who very clearly had proof of delivery, just said that 'item was not as described' and chargebacked £2000 on his credit card.
Credit card took the cash + a fee and we lost the appeal, don't know what else we could have even done.
More needs to be done to hold these people responsible.
Seller_ZEBcHfOFvsoc4
I have been selling on Amazon for over 20years and it has never been so bad 3 item not received today we sent Amazon Royalmail all showing on royalmail as delivered but will have to refund we are a small seller and it running at 10% refunds . Today I have set my account to holiday settings for the foreseeable and will review this again in the new year It really a joke Amazon don’t care they still keep the sales commission when you refund
Seller_IQo80d99W2DzP
So-called 'Safe Place' deliveries is the main issue, again!
Buyers want their item, but then go out, so what does the courier do?
They would be best to leave with a neighbour (but often it can take a long tme to find any neighbour who is at home), or redeliver (so that costs the courier a lot of money, many don't get paid any more for that service).
The Driver has 100 to 200 parcels a day, so they need someone to be in and if not in, that is why they leave in a 'Safe Place'.
But is any place really a Safe Place? - No!
Any thief knows to follow couriers, minimal risk, as no break in needed. as such, the Buyer could be right, that they do not have their parcel.
I think an overhaul of what is acceptable needs to be given to the couriers (set by the Government), and that so-called Safe Places are not ok, unless the Company sending the item says so, and not just part of the contract that it is now ok to do that.
I think a courier should attempt delivery, if out, deliver to a neighbour, and if no neighbor redeliver one more time, then if out again and no neighbour, take to a Post Office (or authorised courier shop) to be collected.
Many couriers since Covid no longer have a Signed for option, that needs to be re-introduced. A photo with the door open and a person there should be the minimum.
If a 'Safe Place' option wanted by a Buyer, then it should be accepted in advance that no claim can be made if the item is then stolen. DPD has that option for example, but then Amazon still refund, so it means nothing.
Royal Mail Signed (or similar with other couriers) seems the only way to mainly avoid this claiming issue, as long as the Driver follows that service requirement. Amazon then often reject a claim, as it shows a signature, name of person, GPS location and a delivery photo.
Then, if Amazon reject, they then go to the Card Company, as has happened to us this week! (await a result from that).
Seller_1vyLJePYDN9hf
Update on this. Buyer has returned the item and maliciously damaged it so it cannot be resold. There is still no option to use SAFE-T showing on this order (because of the A-Z) and no option to appeal the A-Z. I have contacted Amazon and they said they would not count it against my metrics (very generous - costs them nothing), but in fact it is still showing against me. Literally zero protection on any level from Amazon.
Buyer fraud and no recourse
So here's a good one. Buyer claims item-not-received. Send tracking screenshot which clearly shows item delivered. Buyer miraculously finds item "in his recycling bin". Then immediately claims item condition is not as described (it was in superb condition) and he still wants a refund. I offer a return. He becomes abusive and says he is taking me to court. Leaves negative feedback saying I am "extremely unhelpful" and starts a return. I receive an Amazon message on Friday to say 'We have temporarily withdrawn the claim on the order. However, if you do not issue a refund when the return is received, the customer may reopen the claim.' Today is Tuesday and they have granted his claim and refunded him. There is no tracking for the return or indication that he has returned the item and I have received nothing. Amazon says I cannot use Safe-T where there has been an A-Z, that I should use 'Option to Appeal'. But there is no 'Option to Appeal' under the A-Z. Any advice? Another good day for Amazon-encouraged buyer abuse - I've been here long enough to be able to tell instantly when a buyer knows the game to play to get free stuff at my expense.
Buyer fraud and no recourse
So here's a good one. Buyer claims item-not-received. Send tracking screenshot which clearly shows item delivered. Buyer miraculously finds item "in his recycling bin". Then immediately claims item condition is not as described (it was in superb condition) and he still wants a refund. I offer a return. He becomes abusive and says he is taking me to court. Leaves negative feedback saying I am "extremely unhelpful" and starts a return. I receive an Amazon message on Friday to say 'We have temporarily withdrawn the claim on the order. However, if you do not issue a refund when the return is received, the customer may reopen the claim.' Today is Tuesday and they have granted his claim and refunded him. There is no tracking for the return or indication that he has returned the item and I have received nothing. Amazon says I cannot use Safe-T where there has been an A-Z, that I should use 'Option to Appeal'. But there is no 'Option to Appeal' under the A-Z. Any advice? Another good day for Amazon-encouraged buyer abuse - I've been here long enough to be able to tell instantly when a buyer knows the game to play to get free stuff at my expense.
18 replies
18 replies
Seller_ZQyopdiwkUHOZ
Start a seller support case, state there is no option to appeal, and then make the appeal through the support case.
If they don't forward it to the a-to-z team, keep reopening case asking for it to be transferred.
Seller_6A9BM76EEV5EG
Had one today, parcel was left in safe place by their porch, customer claims they never received it and that it could have been stolen. Image on the POD shows it right in front of a ring doorbell. Told the customer to review the footage on her doorbell from the time the POD was signed (gave her the exact time) and to watch who took it and report it to the police for a crime reference number. Starts kicking off, waiting the A to Z now...
Seller_OC4AKQTpHwKwL
Their safe space should be good enough, if not it is their fault not ours!
It is really sickening on here, now.
Seller_RNcqKX0eok7NI
Just so we are all clear here when the courier leaves the item in a safe place and sends photo evidence the item in law has net been delivered.
The law states that an item is only regarded as delivered it they photo the customer holding the item.
The problem in most cases is not the customer but the courier - we need to get them stopped from leaving items in safe places or simply throwing it over the fence and claiming it has been delivered.
I shipped a 7k sculpture to a customer, he said he never received it, two weeks later he found it in his shed????
Seller_N0kQDKMgwda6y
What REALLY annoys me is that Amazon surely knows all about this and instead of acting to help it steadily ratchets up everything in the fraudsters favour. if the senior management don't know they are incompetent and if they do know they are complicit..
Seller_3CG1hSbR0Jmo2
Not just an issue with Amazon, it is just an unfortunately part of selling online nowdays.
I calculated the car parts side of our business lost nearly £4000 to fraud over the last 12 months.
We had 1 customer who very clearly had proof of delivery, just said that 'item was not as described' and chargebacked £2000 on his credit card.
Credit card took the cash + a fee and we lost the appeal, don't know what else we could have even done.
More needs to be done to hold these people responsible.
Seller_ZEBcHfOFvsoc4
I have been selling on Amazon for over 20years and it has never been so bad 3 item not received today we sent Amazon Royalmail all showing on royalmail as delivered but will have to refund we are a small seller and it running at 10% refunds . Today I have set my account to holiday settings for the foreseeable and will review this again in the new year It really a joke Amazon don’t care they still keep the sales commission when you refund
Seller_IQo80d99W2DzP
So-called 'Safe Place' deliveries is the main issue, again!
Buyers want their item, but then go out, so what does the courier do?
They would be best to leave with a neighbour (but often it can take a long tme to find any neighbour who is at home), or redeliver (so that costs the courier a lot of money, many don't get paid any more for that service).
The Driver has 100 to 200 parcels a day, so they need someone to be in and if not in, that is why they leave in a 'Safe Place'.
But is any place really a Safe Place? - No!
Any thief knows to follow couriers, minimal risk, as no break in needed. as such, the Buyer could be right, that they do not have their parcel.
I think an overhaul of what is acceptable needs to be given to the couriers (set by the Government), and that so-called Safe Places are not ok, unless the Company sending the item says so, and not just part of the contract that it is now ok to do that.
I think a courier should attempt delivery, if out, deliver to a neighbour, and if no neighbor redeliver one more time, then if out again and no neighbour, take to a Post Office (or authorised courier shop) to be collected.
Many couriers since Covid no longer have a Signed for option, that needs to be re-introduced. A photo with the door open and a person there should be the minimum.
If a 'Safe Place' option wanted by a Buyer, then it should be accepted in advance that no claim can be made if the item is then stolen. DPD has that option for example, but then Amazon still refund, so it means nothing.
Royal Mail Signed (or similar with other couriers) seems the only way to mainly avoid this claiming issue, as long as the Driver follows that service requirement. Amazon then often reject a claim, as it shows a signature, name of person, GPS location and a delivery photo.
Then, if Amazon reject, they then go to the Card Company, as has happened to us this week! (await a result from that).
Seller_1vyLJePYDN9hf
Update on this. Buyer has returned the item and maliciously damaged it so it cannot be resold. There is still no option to use SAFE-T showing on this order (because of the A-Z) and no option to appeal the A-Z. I have contacted Amazon and they said they would not count it against my metrics (very generous - costs them nothing), but in fact it is still showing against me. Literally zero protection on any level from Amazon.
Seller_ZQyopdiwkUHOZ
Start a seller support case, state there is no option to appeal, and then make the appeal through the support case.
If they don't forward it to the a-to-z team, keep reopening case asking for it to be transferred.
Seller_ZQyopdiwkUHOZ
Start a seller support case, state there is no option to appeal, and then make the appeal through the support case.
If they don't forward it to the a-to-z team, keep reopening case asking for it to be transferred.
Seller_6A9BM76EEV5EG
Had one today, parcel was left in safe place by their porch, customer claims they never received it and that it could have been stolen. Image on the POD shows it right in front of a ring doorbell. Told the customer to review the footage on her doorbell from the time the POD was signed (gave her the exact time) and to watch who took it and report it to the police for a crime reference number. Starts kicking off, waiting the A to Z now...
Seller_6A9BM76EEV5EG
Had one today, parcel was left in safe place by their porch, customer claims they never received it and that it could have been stolen. Image on the POD shows it right in front of a ring doorbell. Told the customer to review the footage on her doorbell from the time the POD was signed (gave her the exact time) and to watch who took it and report it to the police for a crime reference number. Starts kicking off, waiting the A to Z now...
Seller_OC4AKQTpHwKwL
Their safe space should be good enough, if not it is their fault not ours!
It is really sickening on here, now.
Seller_OC4AKQTpHwKwL
Their safe space should be good enough, if not it is their fault not ours!
It is really sickening on here, now.
Seller_RNcqKX0eok7NI
Just so we are all clear here when the courier leaves the item in a safe place and sends photo evidence the item in law has net been delivered.
The law states that an item is only regarded as delivered it they photo the customer holding the item.
The problem in most cases is not the customer but the courier - we need to get them stopped from leaving items in safe places or simply throwing it over the fence and claiming it has been delivered.
I shipped a 7k sculpture to a customer, he said he never received it, two weeks later he found it in his shed????
Seller_RNcqKX0eok7NI
Just so we are all clear here when the courier leaves the item in a safe place and sends photo evidence the item in law has net been delivered.
The law states that an item is only regarded as delivered it they photo the customer holding the item.
The problem in most cases is not the customer but the courier - we need to get them stopped from leaving items in safe places or simply throwing it over the fence and claiming it has been delivered.
I shipped a 7k sculpture to a customer, he said he never received it, two weeks later he found it in his shed????
Seller_N0kQDKMgwda6y
What REALLY annoys me is that Amazon surely knows all about this and instead of acting to help it steadily ratchets up everything in the fraudsters favour. if the senior management don't know they are incompetent and if they do know they are complicit..
Seller_N0kQDKMgwda6y
What REALLY annoys me is that Amazon surely knows all about this and instead of acting to help it steadily ratchets up everything in the fraudsters favour. if the senior management don't know they are incompetent and if they do know they are complicit..
Seller_3CG1hSbR0Jmo2
Not just an issue with Amazon, it is just an unfortunately part of selling online nowdays.
I calculated the car parts side of our business lost nearly £4000 to fraud over the last 12 months.
We had 1 customer who very clearly had proof of delivery, just said that 'item was not as described' and chargebacked £2000 on his credit card.
Credit card took the cash + a fee and we lost the appeal, don't know what else we could have even done.
More needs to be done to hold these people responsible.
Seller_3CG1hSbR0Jmo2
Not just an issue with Amazon, it is just an unfortunately part of selling online nowdays.
I calculated the car parts side of our business lost nearly £4000 to fraud over the last 12 months.
We had 1 customer who very clearly had proof of delivery, just said that 'item was not as described' and chargebacked £2000 on his credit card.
Credit card took the cash + a fee and we lost the appeal, don't know what else we could have even done.
More needs to be done to hold these people responsible.
Seller_ZEBcHfOFvsoc4
I have been selling on Amazon for over 20years and it has never been so bad 3 item not received today we sent Amazon Royalmail all showing on royalmail as delivered but will have to refund we are a small seller and it running at 10% refunds . Today I have set my account to holiday settings for the foreseeable and will review this again in the new year It really a joke Amazon don’t care they still keep the sales commission when you refund
Seller_ZEBcHfOFvsoc4
I have been selling on Amazon for over 20years and it has never been so bad 3 item not received today we sent Amazon Royalmail all showing on royalmail as delivered but will have to refund we are a small seller and it running at 10% refunds . Today I have set my account to holiday settings for the foreseeable and will review this again in the new year It really a joke Amazon don’t care they still keep the sales commission when you refund
Seller_IQo80d99W2DzP
So-called 'Safe Place' deliveries is the main issue, again!
Buyers want their item, but then go out, so what does the courier do?
They would be best to leave with a neighbour (but often it can take a long tme to find any neighbour who is at home), or redeliver (so that costs the courier a lot of money, many don't get paid any more for that service).
The Driver has 100 to 200 parcels a day, so they need someone to be in and if not in, that is why they leave in a 'Safe Place'.
But is any place really a Safe Place? - No!
Any thief knows to follow couriers, minimal risk, as no break in needed. as such, the Buyer could be right, that they do not have their parcel.
I think an overhaul of what is acceptable needs to be given to the couriers (set by the Government), and that so-called Safe Places are not ok, unless the Company sending the item says so, and not just part of the contract that it is now ok to do that.
I think a courier should attempt delivery, if out, deliver to a neighbour, and if no neighbor redeliver one more time, then if out again and no neighbour, take to a Post Office (or authorised courier shop) to be collected.
Many couriers since Covid no longer have a Signed for option, that needs to be re-introduced. A photo with the door open and a person there should be the minimum.
If a 'Safe Place' option wanted by a Buyer, then it should be accepted in advance that no claim can be made if the item is then stolen. DPD has that option for example, but then Amazon still refund, so it means nothing.
Royal Mail Signed (or similar with other couriers) seems the only way to mainly avoid this claiming issue, as long as the Driver follows that service requirement. Amazon then often reject a claim, as it shows a signature, name of person, GPS location and a delivery photo.
Then, if Amazon reject, they then go to the Card Company, as has happened to us this week! (await a result from that).
Seller_IQo80d99W2DzP
So-called 'Safe Place' deliveries is the main issue, again!
Buyers want their item, but then go out, so what does the courier do?
They would be best to leave with a neighbour (but often it can take a long tme to find any neighbour who is at home), or redeliver (so that costs the courier a lot of money, many don't get paid any more for that service).
The Driver has 100 to 200 parcels a day, so they need someone to be in and if not in, that is why they leave in a 'Safe Place'.
But is any place really a Safe Place? - No!
Any thief knows to follow couriers, minimal risk, as no break in needed. as such, the Buyer could be right, that they do not have their parcel.
I think an overhaul of what is acceptable needs to be given to the couriers (set by the Government), and that so-called Safe Places are not ok, unless the Company sending the item says so, and not just part of the contract that it is now ok to do that.
I think a courier should attempt delivery, if out, deliver to a neighbour, and if no neighbor redeliver one more time, then if out again and no neighbour, take to a Post Office (or authorised courier shop) to be collected.
Many couriers since Covid no longer have a Signed for option, that needs to be re-introduced. A photo with the door open and a person there should be the minimum.
If a 'Safe Place' option wanted by a Buyer, then it should be accepted in advance that no claim can be made if the item is then stolen. DPD has that option for example, but then Amazon still refund, so it means nothing.
Royal Mail Signed (or similar with other couriers) seems the only way to mainly avoid this claiming issue, as long as the Driver follows that service requirement. Amazon then often reject a claim, as it shows a signature, name of person, GPS location and a delivery photo.
Then, if Amazon reject, they then go to the Card Company, as has happened to us this week! (await a result from that).
Seller_1vyLJePYDN9hf
Update on this. Buyer has returned the item and maliciously damaged it so it cannot be resold. There is still no option to use SAFE-T showing on this order (because of the A-Z) and no option to appeal the A-Z. I have contacted Amazon and they said they would not count it against my metrics (very generous - costs them nothing), but in fact it is still showing against me. Literally zero protection on any level from Amazon.
Seller_1vyLJePYDN9hf
Update on this. Buyer has returned the item and maliciously damaged it so it cannot be resold. There is still no option to use SAFE-T showing on this order (because of the A-Z) and no option to appeal the A-Z. I have contacted Amazon and they said they would not count it against my metrics (very generous - costs them nothing), but in fact it is still showing against me. Literally zero protection on any level from Amazon.
