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Q&A BY AMAZON VTR = POINTLESS AND CONFUSING OUTCOME.
Hi All,
The Amazon Q&A has caused more confusion than clarification from mods Spencer and Ezra. If I understand correctly, all untracked BPL, RM24-48, and stamped large letters (not sure about parcels) will no longer be accepted or validated behind the scenes, regardless of whether purchased via Amazon or Royal Mail's site.
Unless sellers use an expensive signed-for or tracked service, they risk account suspension, or certain category ones. This change could affect many sellers from February 25th.
I'm open to corrections, but it seems like thousands of sellers might lose their selling privileges on Amazon. I'm just trying to avoid wasting money on stock that won't sell, and give fellow sellers "stop and think" moment.
Any insights or advice would be helpful! I hope I'm wrong, fingers crossed.
0 replies
Seller_ZVAz3d5lZuGid
I agree. The thread is now locked, but the replies from the 'partner team' were all cut and paste from the policy pages, and all in all am not sure it was of any benefit at all - just raised even more questions.
Seller_PAoOCZ5pKszVP
i did think about attending but decided against.
I simply want to know do my Royal Mail 24/48 purchased thru royal mail click and drop count towards VTR or not. i think if i buy thru amazon they are more expensive. some of my items are too low a price/not enough margin to warrant a fully tracked service. I am trying to read the forum comments and I am still not sure. Unfortunately the only way it seems to find out is to to continue as now and hope Amazon give us some sort of warning BEFORE they do something more drastic?
Seller_AlYpsVHv0gj21
I dont pretend to have any idea what's going on. What i do know is that if this is an attempt to make us use tracking on every package it will be the end of the line for me.
I am a very small seller of second hand books. The profit margins are already very very low. Yet another increase in overheads will be unsustainable.
Last week I received an unsolicited email from the Royal Mail trying to get me to to used a tracked service. " For as little as 30p more than standard 2nd Class*, you and your recipient can track your parcel, " . An extra 30p off my profits for every book doesn't sound much but it is too much for me.( the words "from 30p make me think the actual cost will be higher)
As I am typing this message it has only just occurred to me -- is there a connection between RM sending unsolicited messages to sellers (I presume lots of others will have received the same message) and all this activity from Amazon?
Seller_Vf10jieAEG9f1
@Ezra_Amazoncan Amazon please advise when the unanswered VTR questions from the live event will be dealt with.
We are all sitting on our hands here watching our VTR metrics go down the pan whilst we wait for Amazon to provide clarity on what is an extremely confusing situation with lots of contradictory information being given.
Seller_WaCyUpWIeuo3w
My reply from Amazon was pretty pointless. Even though I confirm tracking numbers on all orders and those numbers are trackable online I will continue to get defects on my VTR as the courier is not on the approved list.
The answer from Amazon - change your courier.
When it comes to furniture it's really not that easy to just change courier as the vast majority wont touch furniture due to size and weight.
Amazon did say that my courier could contact them about getting onto the approved list but didn't give any information on how they do this or who they contact.
I've since emailed "Amazon heavy and bulky" for advice and got no reply as well as opening a case to try and get some information but that seems to have gone ignored.
Not impressed
Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh
Oh look - there's been a new response from @Ezra_Amazon hidden in the nested replies
Hi Sellers,
The partner team has informed that:
They apologize for the confusion caused earlier. Your feedback and suggestions are noted. They have provided this updated clarification:
Royal Mail 24/48, as well as untracked 1st and 2nd Class Letter stamps and franking purchased through Amazon Buy Shipping will be exempt from VTR calculations (showing as N/A). For proper exemption application, please ensure you're purchasing these shipping methods through Amazon Buy Shipping and selecting the correct shipping method in the system.
They are still working on addressing other questions and will provide answers as soon as possible.
Thank you! Ezra
As we can't respond on the original thread @Ezra_Amazon THIS STILL ISN'T CLEAR.
What on earth is the difference between exempt and proper exemption?
And just make it clear, even just for Royal Mail 24/48 - are they exempt only if purchased via Buy Shipping - or are they exempt no matter where they are purchased?
Seller_RAXEWLxQ2dbmN
Is that a quote and/or an answer generated by AI?
It sounds authoritative but at the same time makes little sense in relation to what Amazon reps are saying..
Seller_jVrLwMgavp5Xr
It was pointless. I'm still none the wiser, but it was repeated several times that RM24/48 are exempt. At one point it was even stated that large letters were exempt, however you purchased the label.
But the absolute best bit was the howler from Spencer where he answered a customer question with something 'Give a generic response, we don't know the answer/don't wish to engage' which was included in a C&P from the shipping team.
Big oops.
Seller_bwTEJFnDjxAIL
EVERYTHING needs to be tracked to be counted in VTR
Anything not tracked, and scanned upon delivery will not be counted as delivered.
Simple as that.
No exemptions, no work arounds
Seller_1O9Zf9odnBBK5
What does "Rely on Royal Mail's scan rate." mean?
If they aren't purchased on Buy Shipping does this mean that VTR will still apply?
Seller_RTJNdLRVf9Zbe
Hi All,
I am trying not to replicate other replies, so hopefully my personal uncertainty is real and not imagined.
I am confused / concerned with regard to Large Letter outcomes. It is often mentioned that there is variable delivery confirmation if purchased through RM Click & Drop and if purchased through Amazon Buy Shipping this will not impact VTR.
So, if I use RM Click & Drop
- it is cheaper than Amazon Buy Shipping
- and produces tracking information which passes through to Amazon and the customer
- and is not recognised as a valid tracking number by Amazon
- and will impact my VTR.
If I use Amazon Buy Shipping
- it is more expensive than RM Click & Drop
- and no tracking information is generated
- and I cannot claim for lost items etc
- and will not impact my VTR.
Am I missing something?
Alison
Seller_kfh8b3MRlQTps
I would like to know how my customers are benefiting from these changes as they cannot currently purchase my items as I have put holiday setting on until someone from Amazon can provide a definitive PLAIN ENGLISH answer to the following two perfectly reasonable questions? I have been using my Click & Drop account to print & pay for postage with second class parcels & large letters using BPL without being penalised. Up until now Amazon has validated tracking numbers obtained from my Click & Drop account regardless of any delivery scan, will this still be the case? If I have to switch to Buy Shipping then I would have to increase my prices to cover the extra cost while the level of tracking information available to my customers would remain the same. In what way would that help them?
Many other sellers have asked similar questions without a clear reply. The inability or unwillingness of Amazon staff to provide straight answers to simple questions regarding an issue that affects thousands of sellers & helps nobody is beyond belief, even for here. I can only assume that this latest bright idea has been cooked up by AI bots with a collective IQ of 27 who see no need to explain the system to the human staff members at Amazon.
Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh
Just had this regarding Royal Mail 24/48
Hello @thirtythreeandathird,
We received additional answers from our partner team:
You can continue to purchase Royal Mail 24/48 through click and drop.
- For tracked services where we receive a scan it is counted towards valid VTR.
- For untracked services/ services with only a delivery scan confirmation (ie, RM 24/48) the volume is exempted only if purchased through Buy Shipping as this would help us validate you are indeed using an untracked service.
You can directly link your Royal Mail account to Amazon to avail the same rates and services.
Regards, Spencer
So bascially - that says to me you use Royal Mail 24/48 at your own risk given the policy on validation of unscanned items is no longer present.
Seller_HwaQlgFnhSuGS
Well, it’s official.
Untracked post now has to be via Buy Shipping, or else. Apparently to ‘verify’ our use of untracked service.
Looks like an incoming sledgehammer in our account and frankly I am done. Not much wind left in these sails for Amazon.
(edit) To be clear, we will not be going over to Buy Shipping. I refuse point blank to pay Amazon the same as I pay Royal Mail for a service that we cannot claim from for in the event of a loss, whilst at the same time Amazon will be paying Royal Mail less, and profiting even more from the shipping price difference. We will upgrade all of our low cost items to use RM48 when we are suspended from selling in relevant categories. The result will be that most cases the shipping will cost the customer more than the product itself. So we will get less sales, Amazon will get less fee's and the customer experience and availability of the lower cost items will decline.
So the new VTR policy that enables a customer to be updated regarding tracking information (on a non tracked service...) will be pretty much irrelevant as we will see little to no sales of these low priced items.
On the bright side, as we compete with Amazon for these items on Gogole Ads, we will hopefully see a percentage of them purchase direct from us.
Julia_Amzn
Hello Sellers,
I'm returning to this thread to address all questions regarding the VTR policy change that weren't covered during the VTR Ask Amazon session.
Based on your feedback, we recognize that further clarification is needed. I would appreciate your cooperation in helping us create a clear FAQ on this topic.
I will tag sellers who have actively commented on the VTR policy change for visibility, but we welcome all sellers to participate in this collaboration.
@Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh@Seller_ZVAz3d5lZuGid@Seller_RAXEWLxQ2dbmN@Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn@Seller_40ozsHlGqPuEL@Seller_RTJNdLRVf9Zbe@Seller_Vf10jieAEG9f1
Thank you for your cooperation,
Julia.
Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn
In addition to @Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh comments on Royal Mail 24/48.
We also need clarification on Royal Mail 2nd Class Large Letter's brought through Click and Drop.
Even when these have a delivery scan they don't count towards our VTR. Previous FAQ's have said Royal Mail 2nd Class Large Letter is valid for VTR but they have never counted.
Seller_xEpd0hQkG8wol
@Julia_Amzn
It is already the 4th of March, so we urgently need a clear answer.
Can you confirm if shipments sent after 25 February via Royal Mail 24/48 (CRL code), with labels purchased through Click & Drop and tracking uploaded to Amazon, will still be validated in some way if no delivery scan occurs? Or will they be exempt, or counted as invalid against the Valid Tracking Rate?
Thank you.
Seller_RTJNdLRVf9Zbe
In my personal position when needing to send 1st or 2nd Class Large Letters for Amazon orders:
if I use RM Click & Drop
- it is significantly cheaper than using Amazon Buy Shipping as the RM negotiated pricing is not passed though to Amazon when the account is linked apart from RM24 & 48 Tracked Rates
- Using Click & Drop automatically produces tracking information which passes through to Amazon and the customer
- I can claim for late / lost items from RM
- This is now not recognised as a valid tracking number by Amazon
- And this will impact my VTR.
If I use Amazon Buy Shipping
- It is significantly more expensive than RM Click & Drop for 1st & 2nd Class Large Letters
- No tracking information is automatically generated for the customer
- I cannot claim for late / lost items from Amazon or RM
- This will be validated in the background by Amazon
- and will not impact my VTR
So, in summary:
- it will cost me more
- It will generate less customer information
- I will have no ability to claim for late or lost deliveries
- but my VTR will not be impacted.
Am I missing something?
Alison
Julia_Amzn
Thank you for your input @Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn@Seller_xEpd0hQkG8wol@Seller_RTJNdLRVf9Zbe. Your questions have been noted, and I am working on responses.
Seller_7WttAIiaCR7Ty
Can you please confirm if Royal Mail 1st & 2nd Class LARGE LETTERS purchased through RM Click & Drop account (BPL CODE) and DON'T get a delivery confirmation scan will impact on VTR?
I have used this prior to this new VTR Policy and my VTR has always shown 0% and they also showed up on the VTR Report whether they were scanned or not, but my listings were never suspended as you validated the Tracking numbers behind the scenes. Would this still happen under the new VTR Policy?
Does this mean that the only way I can protect my account is to use Amazon Buy Shipping? As we can not guarantee that Royal Mail will scan 95% of our items- it is really unfair that us sellers are penalised for Royal Mail not scanning 95% of our items as this is something we have no control over.
You say in your new VTR policy that to use Amazon Buy Shipping for 1st & 2nd Class Royal Mail is at no extra cost but this is untrue as Amazon's Buy shipping price is more expensive then my Royal Mail BPL prices and you do not allow me to link my Royal Mail prices to Amazon as it is code BPL.
This means that the customer is now having to pay more for the same item and they now even get less tracking information as Amazon Buy Shipping does not send a tracking number to the order/customer (unlike RM C&D BPL which automatically sends the tracking number to the order/customer)- so how is this offering the customer a better service?
This new policy will also cause me cashflow problems as my RM BPL is on account so I get 30 days to pay where as with Amazon Buy Shipping this comes out of my funds immediately-this policy I am sure will hurt many small businesses. And all of this is happening for no benefit to the customer whatsoever.- Can you not do it so BPL is linked to Amazon like CRL?
Julia_Amzn
@Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh, no, it is not possible to validate if Royal Mail 24/48 parcels are not purchased through Buy Shipping and do not receive a door step scan and therefore, will impact VTR. If there is a delivery scan, then we will be able to validate it in the backend.
Please confirm if this repsonse is clear enough. Thank you
Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh
No. Still not clear. Not 100%, though what you have said there is true.
The difference is PREVIOUSLY amazon would validate that any unscanned labels itself was an actual label that was genuine. The VTR policy page use to state the below
You may receive a VTR warning as a result of low scan rate. However, we will validate ‘unscanned’ tracking or parcel IDs with the integrated delivery service provider prior to suspending your offers in the affected category. Your offers will not be suspended if you have provided valid IDs, including for all parcels that have not been scanned by the carrier.
The above statement has as of last month been removed from the policy page (without any due notice I would add). So sellers want an answer - if you don't buy Royal Mail 24/48 through Buy Shipping - are you still validating unscanned tracking or parcel IDs with Royal Mail prior to suspension of an affected category?
In short - is the above bold and italicised statement true.
Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn
This is main point of concern for most of us sellers. We want to know if unscanned Royal Mail 24/48 brought outside of buy shipping which do not have a scan are validated and do not lead to a category suspension
I take it as the policy has been in place for a while and there have been no report of suspensions that the validation of unscanned items is still taking place.
As @Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh said the following line was in policy previously, we just need to confirm this is still the case.
You may receive a VTR warning as a result of low scan rate. However, we will validate ‘unscanned’ tracking or parcel IDs with the integrated delivery service provider prior to suspending your offers in the affected category. Your offers will not be suspended if you have provided valid IDs, including for all parcels that have not been scanned by the carrier.
Julia_Amzn
Checking @Seller_ZJhFeE3tNKzfh and @Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn! I will work on this until we agree it's clear for you and other sellers. Thank you for your response!
Julia_Amzn
@Seller_d8YGbIjNqwFxn, please refer to the information below and let me know if we need further clarification
Fully untracked Letter or stamps services do not receive a delivery confirmation scan and will only be exempted if purchased through Buy Shipping. Other services that offer a delivery confirmation scan or full tracking may be purchased via Royal Mail or via Buy Shipping, however if a delivery confirmation scan is not provided this order will only be exempted if the shipping label was purchased through Buy Shipping hence maybe impacting your VTR.
Julia_Amzn
@Seller_xEpd0hQkG8wol,
If you buy shipping labels through Royal Mail's Click & Drop:Amazon cannot verify deliveries without a delivery scan. This may affect your VTR metrics. We suggest linking your Royal Mail account to Amazon's Buy Shipping and purchasing your labels through Buy Shipping instead. This will protect your VTR metrics, even if delivery scans are unreliable.
Please reach out if you have additional questions.
Seller_7jwrjtU66gmxk
It should be a very straightforward YES or NO
- is this very important part of the old VTR policy still applicable ?
You may receive a VTR warning as a result of low scan rate. However, we will validate ‘unscanned’ tracking or parcel IDs with the integrated delivery service provider prior to suspending your offers in the affected category. Your offers will not be suspended if you have provided valid IDs, including for all parcels that have not been scanned by the carrier.
Has it been removed from the new policy in error or has it been removed as its no longer applicable
Seller_7jwrjtU66gmxk
So I take it you are putting a hold on any category suspensions until after you have done this ?
Seller_nJIsCxkWkBGlh
This is yet another potentially useful thread that has been rendered into unintelligible garbage by the godawful nested replies. Please sort it out Amazon!
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